Episode 155: Matt Johnson runs a podcast production agency
March 26, 2019
That is Matt Johnson, who runs a podcast production agency.
If you have thought about starting a podcast, but don’t want to deal with all the logistics and the marketing, his firm will take care of all the details so all you need to do is show up and share your wisdom, or interview the guests that Matt’s firm will book for you.
To learn more about Matt, visit his firm’s website Pursuing Results where there is also a link to schedule time to speak with Matt.
Will: Hello Matt, welcome to the show.
Matt: Thanks Will, I’m super excited to be here.
Will: So, let’s talk, Matt, about, for independent professionals who are busy running their practice, but also know that they need to be doing some marketing on the side to generate that next client. You’ve talked to me before about developing a system, and systematizing that approach. Tell me a little bit about your thinking around that.
Matt: Yeah, I think for any one of us that are in as an independent professional, if you love what you do and you love working with clients and you love the process of delivering the service of what you do, we essentially are the operations [inaudible 00:00:37] of our own business. Which means we still have to have marketing going on so we don’t have that rollercoaster of having too many clients then having no clients, and then too many again, and then zero. And so like, if we don’t have something that’s going on consistently that’s reaching out and building more relationships, building some authority and some credibility in the marketplace, and keeping us visible and kind of in front of the people that we want to serve, then we’re always gonna be stuck on that rollercoaster.
And so, there’s a lot of ways that you can potentially solve it. You could be spending time just yourself on LinkedIn, just being active and engaged. Or just working the phones, taking let’s say a half a day every week and just kind of designating as business development. There’s a lot of ideas and things like that out there. What I found though with podcasting is that to me, podcasting is the new networking. Right? So in the past, and the agency that I used to work for, you had to fly all over God’s creation, get on a plane, go to Vegas, do the bottle service, go to the nightclubs afterwards. Like all in the hopes of signing up a client. And I never had to do that to build my agency, ’cause I basically am able to laser target just about anyone that I want to build a relationship with, whether it’s a potential client, it’s someone that’s influential in the space, or someone I think could be a referral partner for me. I’m literally able to go out and target them specifically, and just invite them on to my podcast, and just see where the relationship goes from there.
And I see this happening around me everywhere, essentially. Anyone that has a podcast, or has been a guest on a podcast has kind of experienced that. You end up building almost a deeper connection with somebody when you can have a really in depth conversation about their business and about their life, then you would if you got five minutes with them in the hallway of a conference. And so, I see that difference. Face to face time is absolutely important. But, the ability to jump onto a podcast episode with somebody and have a really good in-depth, authentic conversation is even better. Even though you’re not in person. And so to me, finding that thing or finding a way to have those types of conversations on a consistent, regular basis is the game, because we know that’s what generates business. We know that relationships, especially at this level of being an independent professional and doing high level consulting, it’s a relationship sale. It’s a high trust, high relationship sale.
And so the more trust, the more relationships that you have, and the more that you’ve developed them consistently, you know it’s gonna bring in clients. The only challenge is, we would get caught up in the business. We get caught up in delivering the service, that sometimes we forget to kind of build those relationships consistency and systematically.
Will: Yeah. I gotta say that I have never yet closed a client opportunity over bottle service in Vegas. But I don’t really see myself doing that in the future, either. But that was probably a much cooler clients than I’ve served. But tell me a little bit about your practice. So you work with independence and small firms and helping them get all the logistics done around the podcast. Tell me a little bit about the range of services that you provide.
Matt: Yeah, so we basically do one thing for the one kind of same type of person. A couple of different industry’s, but it’s really the same type of person. It’s someone that has really compelling intellectual property, they have amazing content to share, they have stuff that really impacts and drives results from the businesses that they work with. So we work with the people that are typically coaching, consulting or doing high level creative work that helps grow other businesses. A lot of times those are authors, speakers, consultants as well. Maybe they’re running a firm, maybe they’re independent. But what we do, is we do one thing and that’s, we produce their podcast and we take care of all the logistics behind the scenes so that they can just show up and have those conversations that I mentioned. And then we do the rest. Right, we do all the production, the promotion work, the email marketing, the social media marketing to make sure that that podcast finds its footing, gets into the hands of the right people, and then gets the best possible chance to grow beyond that.
So that’s kind of what we do, and I had a lot of options. I was just doing marketing consulting a few years ago, and podcasting was just one of the things I was doing and helping people with. There was a lot of other strategy work like helping build out a new consulting firm, or helping people with their startup, this and that. And it turns out that out of all the stuff that I did, podcast was just flat out the most effective. And what I love about that is I’m always looking for- like in consulting work and professional work, I know you’ve run across this. Like, there’s only so much that we can do for clients. Most of the time, they have to take some action. And a lot of times, it’s action that they don’t necessarily want to take. And so we’re always running up against that challenge of, I think they should do X, they want to do Y, and so the question is, how much are we gonna compromise, and how much are the results gonna be compromised by the compromise.
And what I found is that like doing a podcast for somebody gave me that ability to just plug them into a system, where I knew the system got results if all they did was just show up. And so it takes a lot of the guesswork and all the variation and the opportunity for things to go wrong. It kind of takes that out of it and just plugs them into a system that delivers consistent results. And they don’t have to really understand it all the time, they don’t always have to know what’s happening behind the scenes all the time. All they have to do is show up, plug into the system, have great conversations, and I know that they’re gonna get results.
Will: Now, can you give us an example, sanitize it if you want to protect the confidentiality of one of your clients. But could you give us an example of a professional and how you’ve helped them grow their business through podcast? Like what kind of guests would they be talking to? Are they talking to potential clients? Are they talking to sort of influencers? You’ve worked with a bunch of people, so tell us a little bit about what you have found, what type of guests and what type of conversations actually have helped people drive their business?
Matt: Well, first of all, I love that question. So what kinds of conversations [inaudible 00:06:59] growth. So, I’ll tell you just a quick story, and this case study is on that website persuingresults.com for anybody that wants to like dive into the nitty gritty. Everything’s publicly available, so you can name names and you can see the actual consulting firm that we’re talking about stuff.
So I worked with a startup, essentially coaching consulting firm in the real estate space. So this is a person who had built a wildly successful business, netting a million a year on a business that he had systematized to the point where he managed it in about a half a day a week. So frees up all this time. So he decides to start a consulting company to teach what he had done to other people in his space. And there’s a lot of directions that people can go to promote that kind of business. What we did is that we launched a podcast, and the first thing that we did is we went out to all the influencers in the space, especially the other people who already had podcast audiences, ’cause they were hosting a show, or they were hosting a series of YouTube videos, or something of that nature. Where they had built up an audience of people that we felt like could buy and needed what he had to sell.
So for the first year basically, we just interviewed as many influencers as we could find. And, what he was really good at, was that he then stepped that up and just kept the conversation going, and turned that initial conversation on a podcast into a real relationship. Like he legitimately just made the effort to keep the conversation going, connected with these folks on Facebook, went out and met them at events and things like that, and just become friends with the other influencers in the space. He had no connections, nobody knew who he was, he wasn’t in what you’d call a major city. And so he had no advantages coming into that.
But the podcast introduced him to all the key players in the space. Those people then started referring him business, having him on their podcast on a regular basis, having him speak at their events, and just kind of all the things that influencers do for each other. And that’s what really got the ball rolling. So he was able to build a consulting company from scratch, to the point where now he has people coming in, filling up his in person events, where they pay three grand a pop to just hop on a plane and come to Omaha, Nebraska. And sometimes in the middle of winter. And show up at his event without ever even speaking to him first. They literally hear him on the podcast, go to his website, sign up for three grand, and show in person and that’s- So he built a six-figure income stream just off of in person events. And then he also now has, I think they’re up to like 80 clients paying between 500 and 1,000 a month for scaled out group coaching, essentially, to grow their business.
So he’s built a couple of six-figure income streams off of the intellectual property from his original core business, without ever threatening the original business. And it got his other key players involved, and they helped him deliver the coaching. So, he’s not even having to deliver most of the service. It takes him, I think it’s like maybe two to three hours a week to deliver the content and manage the consulting firm. So he built another multi six-figure business that only takes him a few hours a week to run and maintain. And that was all off the podcast.
Will: That’s an amazing story. So, tell us a little bit about, I’d love to hear it in some more detail, of the range of things that you do, that your firm does, to help someone get the podcast and actually produce it, as well as then to promote it. Because those are things that for individuals that want to do it themself, it’d be helpful to kind of hear all the things that you gotta think about. And also for people that might be interested in getting your support, it’d be useful to sort of hear the range of things that you do.
Matt: Yeah, well- and I want to be really clear, anybody can launch a podcast. And I always recommend just to start simple. Start by interviewing somebody on a Zoom video conference, or a Facebook live, or even on a conference call, and just send that video or send that audio out to your email list and test the response. Are people interested in what you have to say? Are they interested in the people that are in your network? You can always start there. And there’s a very easy way to kind of publish audio and have it sent over to iTunes where everybody can get it. And that is a platform called Libsyn, just kind of one of the industry standards in the space, that’s what all of our clients are set up on. And basically what that allows you to do is you can take any piece of recorded audio, whether it’s super polished or not, and you can submit that to iTunes and have it be publicly available so people can get it on their various podcast apps where they listen to shows.
So you can always do it super, super simple. Now what we do, is we’re kind like- I essentially built an agency that provides more of like a Rolls Royce white glove version of podcasting, because all of our clients are extremely busy, seven figure entrepreneurs and consultants and speakers and whatnot. And they just don’t have the time to worry about any of the behind the scene details, so we do all of that. So basically, they work with us, we launch their podcast in 45 days, we take care of all the behind the scenes details, we do all the design work, voice over, music selection. Everything. We pay for everything. We just do everything we have to do to get their podcast launched with minimal involvement from them.
Then we go out and we find two influencers a month, in their space, we book them on the show for them, and our clients kind of show up, have the conversations, get us some other recordings and things like that for the other episodes that we need so that we can put out an episode every single week to their list. And we’ll talk about like the marketing stuff for a second. But basically, we just do all the correction work behind the scenes, so we have professional audio engineers in Nashville that are producing audio. And then we have professional video editing that produces like a YouTube video version of the podcast. ‘Cause that was one of the things that was really key for my initial show and why it took off, was people found us on YouTube and then went and subscribed to the show on iTunes. So, that’s a strategy that I recommend to all of our clients, is to record all their interviews on video, get them up on YouTube, make sure that they are correctly key worded and titled and tabbed, so that people can find you and stumble across you on YouTube. ‘Cause that is a big source that even big podcasters miss out on, is people finding you through YouTube. So anyway, that’s the bare bones of what we do.
Will: What are all the other things that have to happen sort of in that 45 days as you’re getting it set up? So you talked about- could you go into some- what’s the next level granularity? So, creating a logo? Registering for an iTunes creator account? Like what are all the different steps people need to think about?
Matt: Yeah, I’m gonna pull up our launch template board. We break a podcast launch into four phases. The first phase, where you’re getting kind of the branding of the show worked out, the strategy that you’re gonna take, and just what the show looks, feels and sounds like, is definitely where 90% of the work is, and it’s also where 90% of the tripping up and the obstacles that people run into are there.
So, you mentioned the logo. You definitely have to have not only a show logo for iTunes, but a bunch of other graphics for every other place. Like your LinkedIn account, your Facebook and all the social media platforms. Your blog, your website, all that stuff, as well as two media graphics. So, we build all that for clients. We also take care of the- when you first start listening to a podcast, there’s usually like a stock introduction, like music and voice. And then there could be commercials in the middle, there could be an outro, so to speak, where it closes up the show and the music fades off into the background. So we have to build all that. We have to work with the client to select music that really fits their personality and conveys the sense of what the show is gonna be, and what the audience can expect.
And then we either work with the client to record something themselves in their own voice, or we hire a professional voice over artist to introduce and close out the show. And what that allows you to do is get your- the message extremely consistent and clear, so the audience knows not only what to expect but also what you want them to do next. ‘Cause the whole point of the podcast is, you want them to do something. You want the audience to take action. So that intro and the commercial and the outro is your chance to tell them what you want them to do. So obviously you want to make sure that that’s very clear, easy, direct for the audience, and just kind of remove every possible obstacle from someone being a listener to someone being a client.
So that’s the audio part of it. And then we’re also gonna set up a guest booking system, to make sure there’s a consistence of guests coming into them. And then we’re also gonna set up their email marketing. So, some clients come to us and they’re already wanting HubSpot or something, Salesforce or something like that. If they’re not, or if they have something they want to switch away from, then we start from scratch and we’ll set up all their email marketing.
So for anyone that’s listening, if you don’t have that set up, we recommend either MailChimp is a great option to get started for free. But a little bit more robust option would be something like ConvertKit, or ActiveCampaign, which will cost you between 20 and 50 bucks a month. And that’s a great place to just store all your contacts. Make sure you have a way to communicate with everyone in your list and get them an email out at least once a week. So, that’s kind of that first stage of launching a podcast. Those are all the things that we’re working on with clients.
Will: Got it. Tell me a little bit about the promotion side. So now you’re recording them, you’ve got them out there. How do you build up a listener base and help people get that to grow?
Matt: Well, it definitely starts with your email list, if you have one. Second thing is, to a certain extent you can grab things like LinkedIn contacts and kind of add them in subtly to your email list in small chunks. You definitely can’t load up a cold email list as much anymore, just kind of fire away. So you want to start with hopefully the people that you already have permission to stay in touch with. So obviously starting with them. And then from there, we want to make sure that we get access to every social media account that our clients have, and we’re gonna post and announce when the latest episodes are coming out. And then we also take two to three key quotes, little phrases that the guest or the host will say in the podcast that we think kind of expresses what the podcast episode is about, and get something very shareable for social media. And we turn that into a graphics, and those go out two or three days after the podcast episode is released.
Now, the other thing that we do, and this comes from suggestions that Tim Ferriss received for his podcast a couple years ago, is a shareable maybe two minute max little video clip. And those get uploaded to places like Facebook and LinkedIn. And what that does, is it gives people the ability to just really try a sample of your podcast without really committing to downloading the show. It gives them … the fans that already like your show, gives them something easy to share with their friends and their colleagues. And it gives you as the host, in our case our clients, something easy for them to share if they want to send it to an influencer, or they want to send it to lets say someone who’s thinking about booking them for a speaking event. It gives them something very easy to send along and pass along as a demonstration of their credibility.
So those are the ways that we kind of turn those into marketing materials to promote the podcast. And then for the clients that want to go above and beyond that, and they kind of want to put this on overdrive so to speak, which believe me, with my clients I get that all the time. They’re constantly asking like, hey, what can I do to really turn this? Let’s turn up the juice. Let’s get more people on the list. My answer is always the same; the best strategy right now to promote a podcast and to do a lot of other beneficial things for your business, is just to be a guest on other people’s podcast. ‘Cause that means you’re going straight to an audience of people who are already interested in going your business, and they already know how to subscribe to a podcast. And that’s always the best answer to that, is just to be a guest. First of all, be a great guest, be compelling, be interesting, because funny, hopefully. And give people a reason for them to come over to your show.
Will: ‘Cause that’s already a group of people that have self-selected into listening to podcasts.
Will: What advice would you have for someone, having seen a lot of people do this, for someone thinking about starting a podcast of how to go about it? Any lessons learned?
Matt: Yeah. One of the things that I hear from clients in the first couple of months is that they don’t feel comfortable. And I can tell you from experience, that somebody just reminded me about it. I was hanging out with a mentor of mine, and before I got into podcasting, I was doing like webinars with influencers and things like that. And we were just sitting around chuckling, ’cause he reminded me that the first webinar I did was I don’t know, like four of five years ago, however long it’s been. And he reminded me of how much I was freaking out before my first live webinar, it was like a live video. It was relatively small, it wasn’t a huge audience of people. But it freaked me out a little bit.
What’s funny is that I literally don’t remember that. I don’t remember being nervous, or being- I don’t remember anything. That is completely blocked out. And I find with my clients, they’re the same way. Once you get a few months under your belt, and you’re just doing it and you’re having the conversations, it’s not nerve wracking. You’re comfortable, like you feel in the groove. The conversations come naturally. You’re much better at kind of introducing and closing out the conversation. Like, all those things that kind of freak people out, they just kind of fall into place. And you’ll get to the point where you don’t even remember being freaked out about it.
‘Cause what I found is that it’s not the tech stuff. Right? It’s almost never the technical details that actually really stop people from doing this. When you really get down to it, a lot of times they’re looking for tech tips and techniques and the stuff that trips people up that they say isn’t difficult about podcasting is actually not that difficult. It’s way more the personal stuff. It’s how do you look, and how you sound, and are you comfortable with it? Do you like having conversations with people? Are you comfortable with the way your voice sounds? It’s those types of things that freak people out that actually hold them back.
So I just found that it’s better just to jump in, get started, do something. Even if it’s something simple, and it’s not your full vision. But get started, do something on Zoom, do something on Facebook live, and just start getting comfortable with it. Because you’re gonna go through that phase regardless. Whether you keep it simple or whether you work with a company like mine. You’ll go through that phase, but then you’ll come out the other side, and if you’re anything like me, you probably won’t even remember you went through that phase to begin with. It just kind of fades into the background.
Will: The advice that I’ve seen from Seth Godin on producing any kind of content and others is, if you want to produce a good podcast episode, you’ll do a couple hundred that are average or mediocre. And that’s kind of the only way to- so I’m still kind of waiting for that to happen.
Matt: Yep, yeah. There’s such a great [inaudible 00:22:07]. So, somebody asked Seth Godin like, Hey, I- What was it? I wrote a book, when’s the best time to start a blog? And Seth replied, “Well the best time was two years ago before you wrote your book. The second best time is now.” I think the same thing applies to podcasting, or any form of kind of systematic marketing. The best time to start was two years ago, and the second best time is right now.
Will: Yeah, you can’t I think hold yourself back by saying, “Oh well, I want to wait until I feel really ready for it.” It’s like being a parent or something. You just kind of gotta start and do it, and then kind of keep producing content and eventually get more comfortable with it. At least that’s what I’ve been told.
Matt: Yeah, 100%, couldn’t agree more.
Will: Matt, I’d love to hear kind of your own personal productivity routines, or habits. Things that you’ve picked up that have found that you’ve really worked well for you.
Matt: Okay, so I could go all day on this, so I’m gonna keep it really short and just tell you what I’ve been thinking about lately. ‘Cause I’m always tweaking my routines. What I found over the last year or so is that I tend to wildly overestimate not how much time I have, but how much productive focus energetic time I have. So I stack my days in the sense that I want my mornings to be as productive as humanly possible. So I’m usually booked back to back to back 7:00 AM to noon. Sometimes longer.
So then, around the afternoon time I tend to keep my schedule a lot more open, and more oriented around lets say projects. So things that I’m doing independently. I’m not obligated to show up to a phone call, to a video conference. It’s my time to kind of dive in and just work and produce and get things done. What I’ve noticed is that that is not an unlimited reservoir. So just because I have four hours of unbooked time on a Thursday afternoon doesn’t mean those four hours can be expected to be super productive after also having a super productive, five hour, back to back to back morning. And the way that that affects me is that’s trickled all the way down to the number of projects that I commit to, and focus on in any given time.
So really, what I’m working on right now is let’s keep the mornings super productive, and for the most part, I still book myself back to back to back. But then in the afternoons, I want one exclusive focus for that month, for the most part. You know, there’re other things that need to be done to keep the business going and that’s all fine. But as far as pushing the business forward, I try to limit myself to one project at a time, and get it finished. Or get it to a stage that’s finished.
So, rather than making a little bit of progress in five different directions, I want to make massive progress in one direction. And I think the reason that we struggle with that so much is that we want the fantasy of thinking we can get all those five things done in a month or two. And the fact is, that just doesn’t happen. But going in five different directions at once allows us to buy into that fantasy for a little bit longer. And if you don’t buy into the fantasy, and you acknowledge the fact that you have limited stores of energy, then you have to really choose what project is the single most important thing I can be doing right now to push my business forward, and then focus on that to the exclusion of everything else. And my business coach pointed out the secret to that is, you just have to cut a deal with yourself. You have to look at those four other things in the business and say, yeah they’re important, but they’re not as important as the number one thing. And so I’m putting all of that other stuff on the back burner until I get the number one thing done, and then once that’s done, I’ll turn my attention to the next number one thing. And then I’ll get that done.
And just acknowledging that those things are intentionally on the back burner and that’s okay has been super liberating.
Will: You’ve listened to a lot of podcasts, I imagine, and been involved in a lot of them. What have you learned from any of the podcasts that you’ve adopted and has changed the way you do things?
Matt: Oh, man. Well I was such a huge fan of podcasts before I got into producing or hosting them that I probably do a lot of stuff unconsciously. One thing that I noticed, ’cause I do a lot of live video podcasts, like live videos which are then turned into podcasts. Anyway, point being, because I can see the viewer numbers go up and down, I got a better sense, I think, of where the audience’s attention span. And so I have a little bit more of a fingertip feel of when we need to change topics, how long we can spend on certain things.
So one very concrete example of that is that when I bring on a guest onto any of my shows, I don’t start off with their background story, ever. I always make them do something like a shorter question and answer or a tactic, or something just like bite sized first to suck the audience in. Because I was able to watch while I was on live video when we would kick off the show, and then immediately start with somebody’s background, and they start with, well it was a dark and stormy night in 1973 when my parents went to the hospital. And you can literally see the view counts go down.
And so I just learned certain things like that from being able to be on live video, that I don’t think most other podcasters pay attention to, because they don’t have that live feedback. So it did change kind of how I start off shows, and we always start off with some bite sized chunk of something. We try to focus on something tactical and very implementable. And that’s one of the biggest things I can recommend to anybody who’s listening who does end up starting a podcast, or who has one. Is just, yeah. If you have, lets say it’s a 35 or 40 minute-ish episode, that’s what you expect your show to be, spend the first five minutes talking about something that’s very tactical and easy to implement to suck people in and get them committed.
Will: Yeah, I kind of experienced that as well, that asking someone about their bio, it’s kind of just a bit of a … I mean, no one wants to hear about my bio. It’s just kind of a big lump on the floor, right?
Matt: Well, we do. But yeah. Yeah, as a speaker podcast guest, one of your challenges is you just have to get better at telling your bio in a compelling way. Like shortening it down, condensing it. So yeah, so that is a challenge. For anybody who’s in the listening audience who finds themselves as a podcast guest, or you find yourself invited to speak, that is definitely something to work on. Is how do you take your brio and turn it into a compelling short story that actually conveys some lesson that the audience can get value out of so it doesn’t just drop there and kind of lay on the floor?
Will: Yeah you know, and actually, I editorialized just a second here, not just in podcasts, but for consultants that are going in a discussion with a potential client, and you get asked about, oh tell me about your background. While it is an invitation, you shouldn’t necessarily take it up to spend the next five to eight minutes talking about well, then I went to college and then I started at this consulting firm and then I went to business school, and then I went to this. It’s like, no. Even though the client may not have known a better question to ask to kind of get the conversation going. So, like turn it quickly around to talk about their problem. Your point is well taken about just like, move on from that question quickly.
Matt: No, and you turn it around perfectly. This is something I wanted to point out, ’cause you said something really good, which is talk about their problem. To me, that’s the best and fastest way to turn podcast interviews or being featured on a stage or whatever into actual work, is just focus less on yourself and focus more on their problem, and your unique perspective on their problem. One of my buddies who’s an ex-CMO in Silicon Valley, he’s retired now. But he wrote a phenomenal book called Play Bigger, and in the book he talks about the fact that when you are aspiring to kind of dominate a niche category. So to spend all of your time talking about the problem, and why your understanding of it is completely different, like radically different than anybody else’s view of the problem. As soon as people agree with you, they can’t UN-see what you just told them. They can’t un-see the problem the way they see it, thanks to you. So guess who they demand the solution from?
Matt: The answer is always the person who shows them the problem in a new light. They’re going to assume that well, if you can describe the problem that much better, you must have the solution. And the answer of course, if you’re selling something is yeah, absolutely I do. Let’s take the next step, let’s talk. And so yeah, you hit the nail on the head. It’s less about us, less about hearing our own voices, and more about the problem that the other person is having. That’s what will turn podcast interviews and guest appearances into real, real business.
Will: Fantastic. Well, Matt, lets mention your show here. And could you give us how people can find you. Both the name of your show, your website, for people who wanted to follow up with you, what is the best way?
Matt: Yeah. So you and I met because I had you on my show, which is called The YouX podcast. Like you to the power of X. And so the easiest way to find that is if you’ve got your favorite podcast app, just search YouX Podcast, and you can also get a shortcut there. Just go to subscribeonitunes.com. Believe it or not, I do own that domain, that points right to my podcast on iTunes. Or you can also check out our services at persuingresults.com. The case study that I mentioned with the gentleman that runs the consulting firm and built it from scratch through podcasting is there, as well as a couple of others. Examples of our work, testimonials and success stories from past clients. All sorts of good stuff is there, so you can check that out, persuingresults.com.
Will: Matt, fantastic. Thanks so much for joining us, this was a great discussion, I really loved having you on the show.
Matt: Thanks Will, I had a blast. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to your audience, and hopefully they get a ton of value out of it.